Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

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Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  Hanobear on Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:06 pm

What is the best 10 man composition on average? What gives the best buffs? What will maximize dps output? What will maximize healing output? What is the best CC? Answer and explain!? It will help the guild very much to get questions like this answered. There are so many possibilities to all questions. Smile
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My thoughts for best 10 man group

Post  Thoob on Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:12 pm

Tanks:
Pally, Warrior.
DPS: Melee
Rogue, DK
DPS: Ranged
Hunter, Boomkin, Warlock, Ele Shammy.
Heals:
(Pally/Priest), Druid tree

Reasoning...
Pally; Threat generation is fast and reliable, a plethora of various CD's to help with any kind of situation. (Avenging wrath to help with initial pull aggro, Divine protection/hand of protection/ to remove physical damage debuff or any other debuff generally.) and lets not forget that if the heals should fall off for a few moments causing tank to die heals will get a second chance @ 30% health to save the raid. Sanc also.

Warrior; 'CC', the armor reduction ability to help physical dps. charges and though not often needed but extremely amazing when needed stance jumping to allow tank to avoid fear and follow with a interrupt if need be.

Rogue; Helps tank establish aggro if needed, if utilized effectively can be quite survivable and able to reduce overall stress on healers by cloaking/evasioning/feinting if needed. typically single target dps is always topping the charts with solid CC when needed and poisons are a boon in situations which typically would require a very specific type of class to get a desired effect. (mind numbing/wound/aneseptic.

DK, hard hitting Melee class with interrupts, silence, slight range ability and death grip. being a plate user allows them to take a few hit or two if somethings wrong. few other things I'm sure but can't recall off the top of my head.

Hunter; omfg huge dps when played well. AoE slow, feign death, traq shot, and other wonderous abilities that will make people rejoice at the sight of them. Be warned though, if not careful a huntard may join in their stead by accident and be a hinderance to all.

Boomkin: Innervate, Tranquility(yes it will be needed and extremely useful often) increased crit for other spellcasters, BATTLE REZ.

Warlock: typically massive DPS, Soul stone for druid healer, Banish, fear.

Ele shammy: Totems Totems totems, good dps, slight CC abilities, BLOODLUST!!!! Also known as heroism for you allies.

Pally/Priest;
Either is good, having at least one will typically ensure your tanks are always topped off. Both have great buffs pallies generally able to allow raid to be more offensive while Priest give great defensive buffs. For pally obviously no competition on gear and able to make use of mail should it drop to gear them out faster.

Druid tree;
IDK what anyone else says imho druid heals are the best raid heals. no worries about targets not being able to send out a chain heal to others just pure reliable heals. See Boomkin explanation as well.

random notes...
Other then tanks there is not really any gear competition outside of say trinkets rings and weapons and even then that's almost entirely between the ranged dps.

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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  Hanobear on Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:22 pm

Thoob you basically read my mind....we NEED more opinions not only on this comp - but listing more possible comps. gogo gadget composition possibilities.
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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  bruden on Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:30 pm

I'd put warrior interchangable with DK for melee dps, both can do some stellar dps, both have a bit of silencing and slowing ability, and both can take a couple whacks before they go down. I'd also say a good kitty druid could be interchangeable with a rogue, and infact might be a good idea with leader of the pack.
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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  Hanobear on Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:47 pm

I agree with both of those exchanges .... what about shadow priests and/or enhance shamans? I think they are highly under used and underestimated personally.
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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  Modal on Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:25 am

In my opinion raid comping is less what classes you bring and more of what kind of buffs your classes can bring. In 10 mans, you really cannot provide all the buffs to help both melee and casters, so first you have to make a choice between stacking the raid for melee and stacking the raid for casters.

A caster stacked raid should make sure it has the 13% bonus spell damage from a warlock/UH DK. Spell hit from S. Priest or boomkin is super helpful. 5% spell haste from shaman totems is pro, as is SP bonus from totem of wrath/demo lock. Paladins for blessings, 3% haste from boomkin aura/ret pali aura. Spell crit from a boomkin/ ele shaman. 3% crit from debuff on mob from mut rogues, ret pali, ele shaman.

Same for a melee stacked raid. Major armor debuff+minor armor debuff from warriors/rogues/druids. Melee haste is OP as fuck. For me, windfury/icy talons provides 1k dps on its own, with similar numbers from other melee.

For super fast and easy determining what a raid has for buffs/debuffs, MMO Champion's raidcomp tool is really useful.

http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/

Also, lots of classes can bring certain buffs/debuffs that lead to an individual DPS hit, but raises the raid DPS more than that personal loss. People should be aware of those situations and take the personal hit since it will benefit the raid more.

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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  bruden on Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:39 am

very good points modal, additionally I'd say taking a look at what kind of CC the raid in question might need can help decide what the best composition would be. For example enroute to Kologarn there's a few groups where CC comes in handy and having a lock and a mage or rogue is really beneficial. A shadow priest could be optimal to bring along for undead heavy raids like Naxx and possibly ICC simply because they've got the spell hit to land repeated shackles.
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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  Hanobear on Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:58 pm

To me it's a question of hit bonus' (which I don't know are super important unless you have a raid of people that rely on them) versus actual stat bonus'. So I take Modal's recommendations as they come...and the actual proposed 10 classes/specs look promising. good work. The Shadow priest response was on the money, and with recommended situations included. Smile It's hard forming an epic 10 man....but easy at the same time. Keep the posts and thoughts rollin' in. Any more suggestions?
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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  bruden on Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:17 pm

Yeah, I wouldn't take a hit increasing buff as a reason to bring a class, everyone should be hit capped without relying on a buff/debuff. Other things like boomkin aura that actually give an increase to damage beyond what people should already have on their gear though, those I'd definately take into consideration when trying to form a team of epic win.
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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  Hanobear on Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:32 pm

What about race composition?
Any opinions?
I mean obviously dranei are ftw...as well as other racials. Do you think races matter as a subsector to classes?

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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  Modal on Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:39 pm

The thing about bringing the increased hit isn't that people should be hit capped or not but rather by having 3% extra spell hit, it allows people to swap out hit items for items packing more SP/haste/crit leading to overall dps boost if you have the hit buff.

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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  bruden on Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:06 pm

cept there isnt alot of gear that's not absolutely slathered in +hit. so yeah it makes it possible, but that's supposing everyones got enough to be worth it. Realistically though, bringing a class for a hit buff alone is not enough of a reason.
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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  Zephiro on Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:16 pm

There should be a disc priest there ... ehem mitigation ehem
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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  bruden on Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:36 am

Zephiro wrote:There should be a disc priest there ... ehem mitigation ehem
In just general healing terms there's alot of flux, so long as you got 1-2 tank healers and atleast 1 raid heal you're set for most. However I would say a disc priest is god like if you're going into somewhere that you know you need mass dispel, such as ToC.
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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  Legorp on Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:00 pm

cept there isnt alot of gear that's not absolutely slathered in +hit.

I have two items that equal out to be about 140hit. Replacing say dying curse with eye of the broodmother was a straight 125sp and 87crit. Then again ive always carried extra hit gear incase I wasnt with a draenei. Its just something everyone should do. Have raid gear with/without the hit buffs. oO

Oh and arcane mages have a 3% increase to raid dmg when they crit.

Certain fights are alot easier with DK tanks aswell. General/Sarth/Thor yada yada yada.

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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  Hanobear on Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:18 pm

Agreed trading the DK dps for a DK tank = win in a lot of raid boss fights. :)
DK's are hard to remove from any 10 man comp in my opinion.
I'll post mine soon, still milling over melee. :)
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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  bruden on Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:43 am

uhg, after tonight I gotta make mention that 2 healing faction champs requires people keeping the rogue off the healers. I have no doubts it's possible to 2 heal faction champs, but without anyone keeping the rogue away from the healers the first time he kicks someone without a bubble, or that already used theirs, is dead. and that's only about 15-20 seconds into the fight. I really think we had that no problem if we'd either 3 healed or had someone lock down the rogue. But sadly my mic is broke and everyone ignores raid chat. T_T Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
Other than that tonight rocked raid wise, we dropped mimiron rawr!
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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  Hanobear on Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:16 am

That ToC 10 was a rofl copter of a comp.

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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  bruden on Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:48 am

like I said I think we coulda had it if we'd either gone with 3 heals, or if someone had locked down the rogue. cause pretty much universally sinistrell and I had 1 complaint, and that was getting kicked and not being able to cast.
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Re: Best 10 man Composition - In your opinions?

Post  Hanobear on Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:51 am

oh those interupts were nasty as hell.

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